Allegro Lending Suite Reviews

Allegro Lending Suite

4.4 (64)
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Loan origination software for dealers

Overall rating

4.4 /5
(64)
Value for Money
4.3/5
Features
4.3/5
Ease of Use
4.3/5
Customer Support
4.9/5
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64 Reviews

MACKENZIE
Overall rating
  • Industry: Financial Services
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 7.0 /10

Allegro

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

The customer service is always friendly, professional and prompt. Looking at deals and customizing...

The customer service is always friendly, professional and prompt. Looking at deals and customizing settings to our institution has been simple and straightforward.

Pros

The website is mostly user-friendly. The color coding is helpful for approvals/denials/counters and if a deal has been funded or is marked as an issue. I also love the "Advanced Search" feature as it is so easy to find deals based on the application source or see how many applications have been funded over the past year from an application source. The software also has a number of useful reports to determine applications from dealers, average scores submitted, number of approvals/denials/counters.

Cons

Dealers have told me that they submit an application with a trailer however on my end there is no indication of a trailer being added to the application. I'm not sure if this issue is on their end or my end as not all dealers use Allegro but it is something to look into!
Along with that, if there is a jet ski and trailer it would be helpful to have fields to add the year, make, model and VIN of that as we require it in our other system. I know there is a spot for "RV Trailer" but that does not have all the fields we require.
It would be helpful if there was a setting to turn on sound for a new note or application coming through. This might be a thing but I am not aware of it. I know an email notification is an option but my inbox would get too crowded !
Sometimes the website will not allow us to export to our system for creating the loan if the collateral is an older year (for example 2009, I am not sure of the exact number) it would be helpful if this was not an issue as we have to change the collateral to a newer year to be able to export then switch the year back in our other system.

Mike
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 3.0 /10

Gets the job done

Reviewed on 2020/05/21

Booking indirect auto loans is much easier using the export feature instead of having to manually...

Booking indirect auto loans is much easier using the export feature instead of having to manually complete the entire membership setup and loan setup.

Pros

the product is easy to use. It does exactly what it needs to do so we can complete our work in a timely manner.

Cons

The customer search feature, which for some reason won't allow me to search by anything except for last name. This can be difficult at times when a customer has a very common last name (Smith, Johnson etc.).

Jumping from different screens at times can be time consuming. An example would be if I'm exporting multiple auto loans in day, and I need to upload documentation for each loan, going from exports, to the customers profile, to the upload screen, to the document sorting screen then back to the exports screen can be some what tedious.

The document printing does not show if you have already printed documents or not. Such as welcome letters.

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

Thank you for your review and glad you are getting what you need out of Allegro!
The Quick Search allows you to search 3 ways: last name, SSN (make sure the format is ###-##-####), or by app number. Have you tried the Advanced Search? If not, take a look; you have many more search options. Plus you can save your search and basically make custom queues.
Feel free to contact us about jumping from screen to screen as you described. Our customer service team are excellent at looking at your current process and determining if anything can be improved on your end and ours!
Lastly, when printing Welcome Letters; make sure you click "Save Print Record" to confirm you did in fact print them. By clicking that button it will save a record of that welcome letter and show you that it has been printed.
Again, please contact us if you have any questions...we are here to help in any way we can!

Tim
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 201–500 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 7.0 /10

BSV Review

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

Allegro has been responsive to any questions we have or changes we need to make. They have worked...

Allegro has been responsive to any questions we have or changes we need to make. They have worked hard at personalizing the product to our business model.

Pros

The Product is easy to use. The customer service is prompt in handling most problems that may arise. Allegro has been easy to work with when we attempt to implement different processes. Allegro has been good about personalizing their product to what we need for our business model.

Cons

Implementation has been an ongoing chore. There are still some areas that are not completely what we need. I would like to have had an Allegro rep present for the rollout and maybe come back after 6 months to help us with any changes, concerns or questions. Virtual and online training, in my opinion, are just not as effective as in person training.

Rodney
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Scenic Community Credit Union - Allegro Lending Suite Review

Reviewed on 2020/05/20

The Allegro Lending Suite is user friendly based upon my experience with using the software. The...

The Allegro Lending Suite is user friendly based upon my experience with using the software. The software provides a wide range of reports that are useful in tracking data within our Indirect Lending Program. The ease and speed by which loan applications are received from Dealerships and underwriting decisions are sent to Dealerships helps keep our overall turn-around time per application low.

Pros

The Reports available in Allegro are useful in tracking trends for all aspects of the vehicle loan applications, underwriting decisions and funding of loans. Reports are useful for tracking Dealership statistics and trends and establishing a risk rating for each Dealership.

Cons

There seems to be some limitation on the interfacing between Allegro and Symitar. Data is transferable from Allegro to Symitar. However, data is not transferable from Symitar to Allegro. This requires dual entry of data for loans into both Systems when Allegro reports are used and the required data for a report is in Symitar.

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

Thank you for your review! Yes the reporting engine is a very popular feature since it is so robust and you can edit the reports to show you exactly what data you want to see. It's a very powerful tool and we are glad you like it so much.
Regarding the limitation between Allegro and Symitar, one of our awesome tech guys will be reaching out to you to discuss this further. We'll do everything in our power to resolve the data transferring limitations.

Dan
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 9.0 /10

Allegro review

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

My overall experience with Allegro has been very positive, minus the issue I brought up which...

My overall experience with Allegro has been very positive, minus the issue I brought up which aren't really big more of an inconvince, I'd say your product is very user friendly.

Pros

I like how easy it is to ready credit reports compared to other products such as CUDL.

Cons

I don't like how an error comes up on the approved screen when changing the term. having to put it in as a counter offer makes me wanna throw my computer screen across the room.

Also not being able to change the income should the dealer input it incorrectly will completely kick you out of the system and back to the main Allegro page.

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

We really appreciate your review and are thrilled you are enjoying Allegro over our competition ;).
The main reason Allegro does not allow you to decrease the term on an approval is because technically speaking that should be done as a counter-offer since you are limiting what was requested. However with that said, we understand there are instances where it is completely valid to reduce the term. We can turn on a setting that will help with this so you won't have to send it over as a counter-offer in those situations.
Lastly, give us a call regarding being kicked out of the system if you change the income. We haven't heard of this from anyone else and would like to troubleshoot a few things with you to try and replicate the behavior...thanks for bringing this up!

Mitch
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Dealing with Allegro!

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

I like the integrations they have especially with a new program we have recently adopted Lend Pro...

I like the integrations they have especially with a new program we have recently adopted Lend Pro makes the process seamless and very quick!!
In our current situation with the Coronavirus, our PA dealer are only doing online sales, Allegro has been a bonus for us with everything being digital!!

Pros

The Allegro Suite is pretty easy to use and we at Pa Central are finally starting to use more of the options/functions with Allegro and it make our daily work flow pretty good. The staff is very good to work with and very accommodating with any issues. Really good personal responses and response time.

Cons

I'm a numbers guy and I still getting use to some of their reports. But that's OK I have [SENSITIVE CONTENT HIDDEN] to walk me through process!! A couple years ago we used to have with the Credit Report going down, they changed vendors and it been really good since.

JOHN
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

ALLEGRO A PERFECT FIT

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

I can utilize the customized information at the touch of a dial to evaluate not only the customer...

I can utilize the customized information at the touch of a dial to evaluate not only the customer but the overall performance of the submitting dealer.

Pros

I like the ability to navigate through the entire process. I like the valuable information that is available in real time.

Cons

Took a few days to get familiar with the product but was well worth the effort.

Joseph
Overall rating
  • Industry: Financial Services
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Allegro Review

Reviewed on 2020/05/29

I have had no issues with the Allegro system, and it covers from inception to funding without any...

I have had no issues with the Allegro system, and it covers from inception to funding without any hiccups. Very well designed.

Pros

I love that the red box shows up in the corner of my screen to let me know there is an app waiting to be decisioned. It provides the dealers with quick replies.

Cons

I really can't find many cons about this software, In the beginning, after switching from Dills software, I was a little frustrated about the major differences, however I quickly learned that Allegro was actually set up better and ease of screen use was much easier to navigate.

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

Thank you for your review and really appreciate your business. Your success is our success, so let us know if you ever have ideas to improve Allegro, we are always willing to listen!

Sobhan
Overall rating
  • Industry: Automotive
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 8.0 /10

Easy system to use, very reliable integration with Dealer Track and Route one

Reviewed on 2020/05/29

Pros

The ease of use and integration with DealerTrack and Route one. Works on any browser even iPads and iPhones so we are always connected.Very reliable and doesn't go down.

Cons

lack of integration with APIs like carfax, auto check

Alternatives Considered

TCN

Reasons for Switching to Allegro Lending Suite

Price was better and ease of use

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

We're glad to hear you can use Allegro anywhere and anytime! One of our tags lines is: "It's About Time.". Allegro is feature packed and easy to use. We are always looking at ways to improve, please contact us regarding integration with Carfax or Auto Check...we are always willing to look into a project such as these.
Thanks for your review!

Jaime
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 9.0 /10

Easy to use

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

I like this product. I find it easy to navigate and use now that I've had time to get used to it....

I like this product. I find it easy to navigate and use now that I've had time to get used to it. The main thing I don't know much about is the process of decisioning applications, as I normally only process them.

Pros

I think Allegro is easy to use. It took a bit of getting used to once we first transitioned to it, but the more I used it and got used to it, the easier it became to navigate. I do like how everything is categorized, from untouched deals, undecisioned deals, to decisioned. I also find customer service great. I have always gotten quick responses, and have always been helped.

Cons

I think the only thing I don't like is that sometimes the options on the vehicle don't seem to integrate on the applications, and I have to reach out to the dealership to be able to book the vehicle out. I'm not sure why it doesn't always work, except maybe the different sites that integrate into Allegro don't always import in.

Louis
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

We love Allegro

Reviewed on 2020/05/29

We love this software. It integrates with other vendors we partner with to manage and service our...

We love this software. It integrates with other vendors we partner with to manage and service our indirect lending program. I would/have recommended this software to others. Can not say enough about service, support, ease of use, dependability, availability and responsiveness of the entire team.

Pros

This software is intuitive and easy to use. It is dependable and makes are job easier and provides a valuable tool to work with our dealer network.

Cons

Nothing we love the product. We were worried switching from DILLS to ALLEGRO-we didn't think it could get better-we were wrong.

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

We work very hard to make Allegro easy and intuitive to use. One of our top goals is making the customer experience the best in the industry! Thank you for your review and your business! Let us know if we can enhance your experience in any way!

Anna
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 7.0 /10

Allegro

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

It has a lot more features that DILLS (the product we were previously using)

It has a lot more features that DILLS (the product we were previously using)

Pros

Easy to use. It has a good workflow. The Alerts help a lot.

Cons

The reporting feature has tons are reports but most are not very helpful. I have tried to edit some of them but the variables are difficult to manipulate and I haven't been able to get the info I would like to have. Would be great to either have options to reports or training on how to change them myself.
The automatic approval matrix could be easier to program. We use that very minimally because it is confusing & not worth the time trying to figure out.

Wendy
Overall rating
  • Industry: Financial Services
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Allegro system review

Reviewed on 2020/05/21

very pleased. Anytime we have had problems with the system they are really fast to get it fixed and...

very pleased. Anytime we have had problems with the system they are really fast to get it fixed and keep us updated.

Pros

It is really easy to navigate and user friendly.

Cons

In the verification step on the confirm deal tab you have to save it then go back and confirm it. This is really frustrating, I think it should just have to be confirmed once. Other than that nothing every thing else is really user friendly.

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

Thank you, we appreciate your review and are glad you like the navigation and how easy it is to operate.
We have discussed your feedback regarding the verification tab and realized you are absolutely correct; there is a better and more efficient way to go about it. We will be implementing these changes, if you'd like to add anything please feel free to reach out to us anytime!
Thank you for helping make Allegro better for everyone. It's feedback like this that Allegro was built on!

Barbara
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 9.0 /10

Great product

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

We have been using the Allegro Lending Suite/Dills for many years and have been very pleased that...

We have been using the Allegro Lending Suite/Dills for many years and have been very pleased that we have been able to work with dealerships all over the state and service our members.

Pros

Love that this system organizes and shows necessary information in a legible format to make a decision on a loan request. Also that you can communicate with the dealership via instant messaging.

Cons

Dislike the new updated way to recalculate payment option using the deal maestro. It is not as smooth as I would like.

THOMAS
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Great product and great people to work with.

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

Our business is dependent on Allegro. I have found their support team and specialists to be most...

Our business is dependent on Allegro. I have found their support team and specialists to be most helpful and responsive to any request I make of them. They are genuinely concerned with providing top notch service.

Pros

Allegro integrated with our core system saving time when posting loans. Our loan officers can access the system from anywhere there is an internet signal, making working remotely a seamless option. The reporting capabilities of Allegro are near endless making analytics easier to access and more informative.

Cons

Certain pages that we use daily are sometimes overly sensitive to mouse movement causing unwanted navigating within that page. Sometimes late in the evening the latency is excessive. This may be an internet issue; but it seems to happen on IE and Chrome as well.

KIM
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 8.0 /10

Allegro Platform

Reviewed on 2020/05/20

Very good

Very good

Pros

It is easy to use, they have a responsive support team.

Cons

The reporting and no online written manual available

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

Thank you very much we are happy to hear that our customer service team is doing a great job. That is one core pillar of the company...to have the best support in the industry!
The reporting engine is a very robust feature and can be extremely powerful. If you'd like we would be happy to provide additional training. Since the reports are completely customizable and you can even build them from scratch to get the data you want, there can be a bit of a learning curve. As mentioned, we'd be more than willing to spend as much time as you need to feel comfortable using the reporting engine.

Murphy
Overall rating
  • Industry: Financial Services
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Likelihood to recommend 7.0 /10

CFB Anderson SC

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

The reports ( self generated ) are great tools to track business and trands.

The reports ( self generated ) are great tools to track business and trands.

Pros

The site is very organized and an easy tool to underwrite And fund business .

Cons

Often , when we do not approve a request , we will make a counter offer or payment call. A better way to convey this down sell or other option is needed on the decision screen instead of manipulating the figures and adding comments. The dealers are often confused by our response. Also , we need the ability to change dealer information from a branch level- especially our main contact .

RICHARD
Overall rating
  • Industry: Automotive
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

EASY TO NAVIGATE

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN WONDERFUL. I CAN USE THIS SOFTWARE ON MULTIPLE COMPUTERS IF I'M AT HOME OR...

MY EXPERIENCE HAS BEEN WONDERFUL. I CAN USE THIS SOFTWARE ON MULTIPLE COMPUTERS IF I'M AT HOME OR AT THE OFFICE. I CAN EVEN USE IT ON MY IPHONE OR TABLET

Pros

THIS SOFTWARE IS EASY TO USE, EASY TO NAVIGATE, AND MAKE QUICK, SOLID DECISIONS

Cons

I HAVE NO ISSUES WITH THIS SOFTWARE. LIKE I SAID IT'S EASY TO USE. EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO MAKE A QUICK DECISION FOR THE DEALER AND KEEP VOLUME UP AND LOSSES DOWN AND THAT'S IMPORTANT

Alexander
Overall rating
  • Industry: Financial Services
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 8.0 /10

Allegro Lending

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

I have had a lot of good experiences. I really like the ease of use but again, know that this...

I have had a lot of good experiences. I really like the ease of use but again, know that this products could be much much more helpful if we were to integrate more of our products and forms into it.

Pros

I like the ease of bouncing through the aspects that I need in order to underwrite. It makes it very simple to click to view a credit report, then back to the debt calculation and then to the notes.

Cons

My biggest con I believe comes from the fact that we (my company) are not using the site to its full potential. Integrating all that we can to create the highest functionality.

Tim
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 6.0 /10

Indirect lending operation

Reviewed on 2020/05/20

Good but a little over complicated

Good but a little over complicated

Pros

Email alerts
Integration with our core
Clear tabbing for review
Auto/Deal Snapshot
Reporting

Cons

Reporting Overly complicated- This needs to be thinned out to more relevant reporting
Deal modification needs to be easier- You should be able to modify the submitted deal on the front page. Going to maestro seems unneeded and difficult when mobile
Setting up institutional docs should be an easier process and cross feedable from the dealers input.

Malinda
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Review

Reviewed on 2020/05/20

It's a good system for all lender sizes.

It's a good system for all lender sizes.

Pros

Interfaces will core lending suite well. Is easy to use and works well with dealer lending platforms such as DealerTrack and Route One. Also works as a standalone for dealers who do not use DT or RO, such as motorcycle dealers, RV dealers, etc.

Cons

It has an auto decision function that could be more robust by programming to assist credit unions with whether the potential member qualfiies for membership. Right now, it only uses home zip code. Work zip code would be helpful.

SHERRY
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Allegro

Reviewed on 2020/05/20

It has been a great experience and when I call for help they are always wonderful to deal with.

It has been a great experience and when I call for help they are always wonderful to deal with.

Pros

It is very easy to process and get the dealer an answer quickly. I like that we don't have to fax the answers back it just goes back to them. It is a very good program.

Cons

I don't like the way the credit reports print, they are a little harder to read then the ones we print in the office.

TIFFANY
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 51–200 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 5.0 /10

ALLEGRO LENDING

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

GREAT

GREAT

Pros

RESPONSE TIME AND EASY TO VIEW LOTS OF OPTIONS

Cons

CREDIT REPORT NEEDS TO BE EASIER TO VIEW

Response from Integrated Lending Technologies

Thank you for your review! We're glad you like the response time and the many options available to you at no additional cost!
We value feedback and are always open to hearing ways to improve. In fact, many features in Allegro came from feedback like yours. With that in mind, we'd love to hear your ideas on how to make credit reports easier to view. We wanted to make sure you knew that there are a couple different ways to view credit reports and even some customizable user settings which might help.
We're completely serious when we say...let us know how credit reports would be improved!
Thank you for being such a valued client and we look forward to hearing from you soon!

Michel
Overall rating
  • Industry: Banking
  • Company size: 2–10 Employees
  • Used Daily for 1+ year
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Simple and Efficient

Reviewed on 2020/05/15

The ILT Team has been responsive and easy to work with during the process of customizing the...

The ILT Team has been responsive and easy to work with during the process of customizing the software to our unique product needs.

Pros

Allegro allows a fast and defined review of applications presenting results in a logical and readable format allowing for quick decisions. It also allows for easy changes or corrections to down payment amounts and loan request amount that immediately flow the the analysis & exceptions screen for review.

Cons

We're having some challenges where the Contract Date on the Deal Structure Screen has to be changed before an Approval Decision can be made. Declines are not affected, only Approvals.

Murray
Overall rating
  • Industry: Automotive
  • Company size: 11–50 Employees
  • Used Daily for 2+ years
  • Review Source

Overall rating

  • Value for Money
  • Ease of Use
  • Customer Support
  • Likelihood to recommend 10.0 /10

Excellent Decision Making software

Reviewed on 2020/05/20

Their customer service has always been helpful when I needed answers quickly.

Their customer service has always been helpful when I needed answers quickly.

Pros

It makes credit decisions easier. It's easy to use to ensure you have all the information necessary to make a solid credit decision

Cons

More fraud detection tools. No matter how many you think you have it would help if you have cross referenced other data to ensure the customer is who they say they are.